A: You fry meat, If you want to put meat in it. And if (it is) without meat, you fry onion and a little bit of oil, and you put a little bit of water to it… tomato paste with it. Also you bring .parsley. You chop a bundle of parsley and one of mint into small pieces.

?B: And what 

A: Mint. You chop it, you mix it together in… and you throw it on the water or the meat. And if it is without meat, put kǝbba. These small (kind of) kǝbba. Yes. you put it, And you add sour and sweet (ingredients) to it. We (used to) do it with… we don't have it (anymore). What's the name of this sour (ingredient)? Tamarind. Or lemon. a lemon… If you don't have tamarind, you squeeze a lemon, and you add sugar to it, And a little bit of salt. You pour it on the chard and the (parsley and mint). And you throw kǝbba on it. That's it.

?E: How much turnip

A: It depends on you. (Literally: isn't it your will?) According to the amount that you want to cook

 

 A: so I…. during that time… The lawyer ˀAnwar Šaˀūl, (who was) a poet and writer, you know… I was always in contact with him, Yes. He told me: Abraham, would you do me a favor? I told him: What's going on? he said: when I got married, the first (Iraqi) pilot, Nāği…

.B: Nāği, the pilot

A: Nāği, the pilot. When I got married, what did he give me as a present? He gave me the lid of a bomb, the one that hits an airplane. Its lid. and he wrote on it: "A gift for my marriage" and that. And there was another piece with it. Another piece of which I managed to get rid. But this lid, I am afraid to put it at home. It was the first Friday after the (Six Day's War), I told him: Wait! I will come. I went to their house. And I took it and put it in the (shopping) basket.

?...B: So he was afraid that they will catch him and

A: He was afraid… they (the Iraqi authorities) were searching the houses, they (the Jews) were afraid. Yes. Because it was (easy) to say what it is if you… it's clear what it is. I put it in the… (I put) it in the basket. And I put an eggplant on top of it. (laughs) Eggplant and tomatoes and I don't know what (else). As if it (was used for) vegetables. Yes. I put it in my car and I brought someone with me, a friend of mine from our relatives, I told him: Come with me. He (this friend) was a coward. B: And he knew, Or didn't he (know)?

A: No, He didn't know. Yes. I told him: Come with me. I took him and we drove the car through Bǝġdād ᵊğ-Ğadīda road, It was a new road they made from… the Tigris River till Dyāla. And it cuts Bǝġdād ᵊğ-Ğadīda from its edge and it became a place of parks and gardens and that. But in the mornings there was not a lot of traffic there (literally: there is no one driving in it so much). I took him with me and I sat down in the car. I told him: I am looking in the mirror, if I don't see a car behind me, people coming from behind, you, wherever it is, throw it from the door. Throw it and we will get rid of it. Indeed I came, I saw there isn't… we saw a piece of land with water and plantation that grows in it, I told him: Go ahead! Throw it! Indeed he threw it into the water and we came back. We came back to my house, suddenly I see that ˀAnwar Šaˀūl and another friend of mine were sitting there…

?B: Wait a minute! It means that (you didn't throw it) into the water of the river

...A: no, not in the river

B: But his name is written on it... A: No, no! We threw it just like this on the ground… It didn't have the name of ˀAnwar Šaˀūl on it. "My gift on the occasion of…" Yes. Indeed we threw it and got rid of it. 

 

?A: Where was your grandfather

     .B: He was in... they origin is in... the father of my grandfather... they are Baghdadis

and there was some illness in Baghdad... this plague... I don't know what

.and every day thousands died

.A: They died (literally: they went), yes

,B: Many jews fled from Baghdad

,like my grandfather

,the father of my father

.he came to live in Ḥǝlli

?A: In Ḥǝlli or in Čǝfǝl

.B: Ḥǝlli

,my grandfather... the father... the father of my mother

,they lived in Čǝfǝl

,and they stayed in Čǝfǝl

,And he started to work

,to lease lands from the Turkish government

.he even leased the cemetery of Naǧaf

?ok

.And he had a house in Naǧaf

And my mother used to remember it... she said we had lived 6 months in Naǧaf

?there, ok

,And this cemetery of Naǧaf

,nobody got to be buried there (means: it was very difficult to get to be buried

there)

,it... was leased from the government in like... was leased in 100,000 Lira or 200,000

.and he had to give them

?ׁׁ(And every... but from where did he get (money

,Everyone that they (someone) wanted to be bury

.they took... from them money

,like... 20... 20... cents 30 cents

,I don't know

.it was in... in the time of the Turks, yes

,he used to lease it

and he leased lands from the government, like the... these taxes of tithe that were

.taken from the crops and from that, yes

?A: They used to lease it

,B: They leased it

,they were proposed... in a bid, yes

,like... 100,000... Lira, 20,000 Lira

.It... the bridges these are all... all bids

.C: The tollways

.B: Tollways , yes, they yes... took

.A: And they collected

.B: The collected the money and gave it to the government

.if they earned, they earned, if they lost, they lost

.(its like ( this

.the government didn't interfere

.yes

,He came to... later all this business moved to Šamīyi

.he came to Šamīyi

,When he came to Šamīyi

,it was) a town full of swampsׂ)

.(there was no land, yes (literally: you want a piece of land in it, there isn’t

...They started

,they started... there was one who had a piece... a piece of land near his house

,he told them

.friends, come build a shack in it

.(A: And live (there

B: And live,

what's the problem?

there was no sand to bury in it (literally: sand in which you want to bury there isn't),

you understand?

Not... a town of swamps... water all around it,

The land,

when you step on it your leg sinks and water comes out.

OK.

then... but they came,

They came and made like... this... a... a big house all made out of this... of cane and

bamboo weaves and from... this.

There wasn't any building (literally, rhetorically: what was a building?)

There wasn't any building.

and they lived,

they lived in it,

and they brought... these beds and everything and...

and they slept in it,

they split it... a part for the women a part for the men, yes, that.

They stayed for a while till... one day they woke up early... they woke up early and

they see that all their land is flooded and... ok?

(laughs)

And they... the... the... the... the water reached half...

A: To the knee.

B: To the knee... yes indeed.

(laughs)

after all it... was a swamp.

A: A leak.

B: Yes.

Afterwards he started to work... my grandfather

he piled and arranged pieces of land (literally - this is a piece of land and he piled it

and made it),

and slowly slowly Šamīyi became a town.

Its streets... the streets that were made in the end... water used to run in them,

A: Water.

B: Like... like...

A: Venice.

B: Like Venice...

yes, indeed, like Venice.

it was like...

and the water came out to the lake and the Euphrates spills in it,

disgusting.

And the mosquitos ate us,

(laughs)

The mosquitos used to kill us.

D: Where was it, in Diwanīyi?

B: No, in Šamīyi.

D: So you lived also in Šamīyi?

B: What?

It... our origin... they came from... he... their origin is in Čǝfǝl,

my mother was born in Čǝfǝl,

my maternal uncles are born in Čǝfǝl.

But later when...

A: What's the distance between Šamīyi and Čǝfǝl?

B: About sixty kilometers...

A: Sixty kilometers back in these days was... a long distance.

B: But how was it?

There were no streets.

We used to go... they used to take a mǝšḥūf (a kind of boat),

we traveled with the mǝšḥūf to Čǝfǝ...

A: What is a mǝšḥūf?

C: A boat.

B: This... like that in Venice.

You know this... this... this...?

D: Ah!

A: Like a gondola.

B: Gondola.

Yes, like a gondola.

Its like that... high from here and from here...

A: And the land like that... doesn't have this?

B: Yes, no (on the contrary) it has,

and we sat in it and... we traveled with it.

like once we came from Hǝndīyi to Šamīyi,

it was some holiday,

We had a big boat, like that that ships seeds,

able to carry 50 ton, with a sail, you know.

A: Yes, yes, yes...

B: We put mattress...

A: Mhāyla (another type of boat).

B: A big mhāyla.

And we came with it from Hǝndīyi to... to Šamīyi.

It is a long distance.

We took off from there at... around four in the afternoon,

it was summer,

we arrived at Čǝfǝl... we arrived at Čǝfǝl at around the middle of the night,

we rested in Čǝfǝl with friends... we stayed there with them,

and we took off at dawn... we took again the... in it (the boat),

so that... there are places in which the bridge stops (working),

They have like fixed hours,

so that we will reach it before they close it,

this bridge of Kūfa.

And this... we traveled through Kūfa till we arrived in Šamīyi the day after in the

afternoon.

There was nothing (literaly rhetorically: what was there?),

no cars...

A: That means... that means that from Čǝfǝl to... to Šamīyi how long does it take with

the mhāyla?

B: From Čǝfǝl to Šamīyi with the mhāyla ... about four-five hours.

A: Four-five hours.

B: Yes, yes, yes

A: It means four-five hours for sixty kilometers.

It means you travel twelve kilometers in one hour.

B: And this is with a sail... if the wind came and that...

C: It is not a plain road,

it (the road) needs to be shown to them,

so that he sees the land.

B: Yes, yes.

 

היה היה. היה מלך, למלך הזה היו שתי בנות. יום אחד, הוא אמר להן, שהוא רוצה לנסוע לחאג', הוא נוסע לחאג'. מה אתן רוצות (שאביא לכן)? הוא רוצה ללכת לחאג', מה אתן רוצות (שאביא לכן)? אביא לכן... מתנות. הבכורה אמרה לו: תביא לי בגדים ותביא לי כאלה ותביא לי אחרים. הצעירה אמרה לו: לך בשלום ושוב בשלום, ואני אוהב אותך כמו מלח. כמה יקר הוא המלח. אוהב אותך כך. הוא חזר, הוא נסע וחזר. הוא חזר מן החאג', וקרא לבנותיו. אמר להן: הבכורה, מה היא ביקשה? הוא נתן לה את זה. הקטנה, מה היא ביקשה? לאהוב אותו כמו מלח. הוא גירש אותה. ואמר לה: למה מה זה מלח כך שאת אוהבת אותי כמו מלח? אינני מסכים, אני לא רוצה אותך ולא מעוניין במלח שלך. הוא כעס עליה. וגירש אותה מהבית. המסכנה הזאת, נשארה בשלה. יום אחד ראה אותה בן של סולטן. והתאהב בה, ונישא לה. היא אמרה שהיא רוצה להתנקם באביה. מדוע הוא גירש אותה מה...? היא הכינה להם סעודה גדולה. ולא שמה ולו טיפת מלח, במאכלים. הם התישבו לאכול, ולא יכלו לאכול. היא אמרה להם: למה אתם לא אוכלים? מה זה? הם אמרו לה: זה הכל בלי מלח, איך אנחנו יכולים לאכול את זה? היא אמרה לו: קיראו לאבא שלה. אימרו לו: איך זה שהוא לא הבין? עד כמה יש במלח יוקרה. אני עשיתי את כל זה בלי מלח כדי שידע עד כמה עזה יוקרתו של המלח. ושלום עליכם.

 

?A: So they were not (involved) in… smuggling… the people

.B: They didn't take money. They (just) assisted.

.A: They assisted, yes

.B: Yes. Anyone who wanted… they arranged a way (out) for him.

.A: It's a pity that they were caught. It's a pity that they were caught.

...B: Yes. That (smuggling from) Baṣġa was a disaster. A: How terrible was Baṣġa and its 

.B: I… I knew more or less all these boys. I used to go to my sister Widād. She was married (and lived) there. I used to go. They were all my age

...A: Oh no! B: All of them were the same… age of mine. So

.A: The one that they killed by hanging, a boy, they said (he was) 16 years old

B: This… Dawūd Ġāli, 1 Refers to Iraqi Jews that cooperated with the Jewish Agency and assisted Jews in being smuggled out of Iraq through the Iranian border. 2 Refers to 9 Jewish boys that were caught while trying to .

...escape out of Iraq and were hung in Baghdad on January 27th 1969. (was) our neighbor. The other Dawūd, he    

.A: How many boys did they kill by hanging in Baṣġa? From the boys, They said that only one boy

?C: No! How come only one boy? B: No! How come one? Six (or) seven. A: From the… from the Jews

?B: Six (or) seve… Yes! C: Yes! What (did you think) then

:(B: Six (or) seven. (coffee is brought to the participants

.D: This coffee didn't turn out good. You confused us with the talking and it boiled

:(C: What's that? D: The coffee. (back to the subject

...A: (Just) a second! B: They had killed six (or) seven by hangin

?A: Jews

B: Jews. They were eleven. Eleven (who were) hung at the same day. and I, I got out of the… at night we heard the… They said they are killing them by hanging.

!A: How terrible is that 

.B: There was… a trial. Ok, I had… I had (to go to) my college. We lived in Masbaḥ, I had to go to Bāb ᵊl-Mˁad̠̟d̠̟am 

.A: I… (but) We are talking about Baṣġa. B: They hung them in Baghdad, In Sāḥǝt ᵊl-Taḥrīr

?A: They brought Nāǧi Zǝlxa to Baghdad? B: They hung all of them in Sāḥǝt ᵊl-Taḥrīr. (Did you think) Otherwise

(C: Yes. (Did you think) Otherwise? All of them. A: Not in Baṣġa? B: Which Baṣġa? (Rhetorically

!C: No! A: Oh I wish their heads would come off! Oh let their name be erased 

C: All of them in Baghdad. B: So I took one of these service taxis. I got out of the house I took a service taxi, (and) went to the college. I didn't know! How could I know? I saw that the streets look different. The people are troubled and so on. I got till Sāhǝt ᵊt-Taḥrīr. And I saw them hung in front of me.

A: Oh no! (Literally: grief!)

B: Ok. I wouldn't go to the college anymore. (Rhetorically: who will go to the college anymore?) (Said to the taxi driver:) please let me get down! I got off, I made a turn from Sāhǝt ᵊt-Taḥrīr, (and) I went through Nid̠̟āl street, not through Saˁadūn street. I walked on Nid̠̟āl street and I went back, I went to Xālda's at the time.

 

The Jew and the jar It was… There were many… around four or five Jewish men, every Saturday they used to fill their pockets with watermelon seeds, and there was a coffee shop, they went to sit in the coffee shop. Then… they were sitting in the coffee shop, And there was someone who had a donkey on which he used to load jugs. He went to sell them. Every time he used to pass by (the coffee shop) he saw them and started to curse and to come down on the Jews. One time, One of the men that sat there said: No one but me can deal with him. What do you intend to do to him? he told them: I won't say. I will do the thing and then (you will see). He (the donkey owner) came by all cocky on Saturday cursing and coming down on the Jews. The other one prepared a needle, got close to the donkey, (and) pricked his ears with the needle. It hurt him (the donkey), (it was a) strong prick. It hurt him, and he started to jump. He shook off and all the jugs fell down on the ground. This guy went to complain about him, to the police. They brought him (to the police). Why did you break his jugs? he told him (to the police and shook off his cargo. I have nothing to do with it (rhetorically: what do I have with it?). They told him (to the donkey's owner): Quickly! They kickedofficer): I didn't break his jugs. I went to whisper in his (the donkey's) ears. I told him: If you are a Jew who is the son of a Jew like he says, how come... today is Saturday, How come you work on Saturdays? And he got angry him out, The donkey's owner. And he (the Jew) came out innocent.

התרגום באדיבות ד"ר אסף בר משה